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Hmmm ok. I wasn't going against you posting or talking about it, just wanted to know the opinion of the guy behind the posts. Your posts are interesting to read (and also trying to imagine their experiences)

I am against addictive substances and the notion that creativity and fun can only come from a drugged state (alcohol included; some don't say it, but act like it - talking about people in general), because both of these things are damaging to the psyche. There are exceptions of course, but they are, as we Croatians say, "The exception that proves the rule"

Though the one aspect of drugs that I find appealing is the one that it could possibly open up a dormant place in your brain that otherwise may not be possible. Or maybe the possible change comes from brain damage :lol:

EDIT: not talking about me, I was thinking, for example, of the change George Carlin experienced.

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December 16th, 2009, 8:23 pm
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I guess the problems come from, at least with psychedelic drugs, inherent psychic problems that are opened up or sth by the drugs, rather than automatically caused by it. Or people with destructive behaviours just finding refuge in abusing drugs, what ever they might be. Just because you go on a booze bender every once in a while doesn't mean you're an alcoholic...

The problem is when the research is used or performed with an agenda, either pro or against (the latter most common) the use of drugs, either of them.

What is interesting, I think, is whether the out-of-control use of illegal substances come automatically from the substances, or from the plain fact that they are so stigmatized that drugs (I'm talking heavy duty stuff, meth heroin etc, not the nice stuff)... hm, lost my track. But, I mean, drug users are automatically stigmatized as such, opening up for destructive behaviour, and that it becomes part of a wider destructive behaviour (drugs = criminality = drugs as part of criminal lifestyle). Like, I don't know, Dr. Phil telling parents to send their kids caught smoking weed to send them to detox (=stigmatized). Or are the drugs inherently dangerous? Guess some are, but I liked that knife simile earlier in the thread...

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December 17th, 2009, 10:57 am
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@JH: Sincerely, I have tried quite some of it, used and abused some of it (mainly alcohol, caffeine and marihuanaI), and I am actually against using them in my own body anymore. I'm not a so called straight edge, because I usually drink some alcohol and probably would smoke some joint if I didn't suffer asthma. Maybe some day I try to do a marihuana tea.
I don't know what Oliver's habits are, but if he uses and/or abuses any kind of psychoactive, he seems to not be mad by any means. Also, he is finishing some serious studies so he may be smarter than me, but I do not have a career because I was too lazy and went the easy way, really. :lol: Yeah, I'm stupid by that, (sarcasm -> I could just have a little bit higer income, btw).

I'm against people abusing drugs just for fun, which I know by first hand because I have done it (and sometimes it leads to disrespect for other people). I'm not against research of it or personal use knowing what you do. Also, in the end, anyone can do what feels like doing.

Addicted people is a sad thing, and dealers who put shit on their drugs to sell more quantity and less quality (or no quality at all) must die (and people not buy from them).

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December 17th, 2009, 11:25 am
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I'm not saying the change could come from SERIOUS damage, but it could come even from mild damage (I'm not a doctor, but logic and the little I know tells me if a certain sector is damaged, it could change your personality). I'm also acknowledging that drugs could just open some dormant parts; it could be a placebo also

I agree with avoid, lord knows it would be difficult to find a objective research (let alone accurate)

Oliver sounds sane and intelligent, I wasn't questioning his mental abilities hehe (although the "some people experienced sci-fi" confuses me :lol:).

And yes, addiction is very sad. Think of the repercussions it has also on your psyche, not just your social and material life

For my part, I promised myself as a child I wouldn't try alcohol, cigars and drugs. I've kept 2/3 of that promise, as I used to get drunk some time ago. Now I drink rarely (last time I was drunk was... I think 3/4 years ago). Cigars I will never try, I really hate the smoke. I am curious about weeds (and nothing more than that) but don't know if I'll ever try it.

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December 17th, 2009, 12:33 pm
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I think if we confine psychedelic drugs to the most commonly used (LSD, Psilocybin, Mescaline and possibly Marijuana) Brain Damage as in damaging/killing cells in your brain can be completely ruled out as various studys have shown. On the other hand people who dont take the time to integrate these experiences into their everyday lives may end up very "damaged". If you have seen one true "Acid casualty" you would know what I mean. I, for one, think moderation is the key here. I have noticed how my trips, if taken in an appropriate setting and spaced reasonably far apart can influence you in a positive way for months (or years) to come. I have noticed how a trip in a "bad" setting can fuck with your head even weeks after you have come down. I have NOT noticed any permanent detrimetal effect from moderate psychedelic use. I have noticed negative effects from smoking too much marijuana and thus toned down my use. I think the main point is that all these drugs are non-addictive (even though marijuana is pretty habit-forming) so as soon as you notice any problems you just stop/reduce your use of these drugs. (Try to say that to a crackhead)
I would never encourage anyone to take any drug of any kind but I can pretty much guarantee that a low-medium dose trip on psilocybin mushrooms won't harm anyone in any way (unless you really fuck up your set and setting), and science agrees with me.
Well those were just my 2 cents and probably I just repeated the things that already had been said.

@aVoid: I am as well of the opinion that "conserving with beings on DMT" and stuff like that is utter bullshit, its all in your head.

@Oliver: I would be very interested to know more about your favorite dosage and setting to maximise safety and ensure a rewarding experience.

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December 18th, 2009, 4:47 pm
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Oliver Side wrote:
I think many persons on here would be surprised to meet me in real since I'm not your typical drughead, etc. Everyone has an image in their imagination of what a drughead should be and it rarely is accurate or based on facts. For me we're all human beings anyway, and I don't see myself as different from any other person, druggy or not.


Actually, I had the opposite perception of a "drughead" for you before I even knew of your habits, and I still have (you know, by reading you on the forum and reviews - like if that was ever enough to actually know a person). And for that I don't mind what often your "habits" happen, not that it is of my business.

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December 19th, 2009, 1:55 am
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Oliver Side wrote:
@Adryuu

Well indeed a forum is not a private conversation in real life so I like talking about lot's of things without going into the frivolous details. :) Lately it's been like some people REALLY want to know if I'm the worst drughead out there since I find so many related quotes. Personally I think the quotes I find should be much more interesting than whether or not I like taking this or that drug hehe.


That's very true. Your investigation will stand there, until the forum explodes or something (I hope you keep all that research in some place), but someone will not really mind if you crash your car tomorrow, if you know what I mean.

To tell the truth, I don't think you are every weekend high on something, although I don't know if that being true would dissapoint me or not. I don't know why, but I know (I think it's clear), that you have your senses and time focused on many things apart from just "psychedeling" for the sake of it. I think you do it for some kind of self-research, that can extend to anyone since you are as human as all the rest. Maybe it serves you well for your studies. You seem to quote and know about several people who studied substances and even synthetize them, and I think you may want to do like a bit of it. But I'm not referring to as if you had a laboratory or anything. Indeed, I think I may have taken drugs more times than you, but maybe you took them in a completely different way. Maybe you even haven't had them. :P Nah, I think something at least yes, from time to time. Anyway you are right, it's not my business nor anyone else's but YOURS.

And now, if you don't care, I'll write you a private message (but I SWEAR it's not related to this topic!!) :mrgreen: But I do hope you find some time to reply, soon.

Later, Oliver Side.

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December 19th, 2009, 2:20 am
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The Institute of Medical Psychology at the University Hospital in Heidelberg, Germany has set up a Research Department Ayahuasca / Santo Daime, which in May 2008 held a 3-day conference under the title The globalization of Ayahuasca - An Amazonian psychoactive and its user. There are also the investigations of the human pharmacology of ayahuasca done by the team of Doctor Jordi Riba, in Barcelona, Spain, and the work of Rafael G. dos Santos and collaborators, in Brazil. And there are also the studies (i.e. Hoasca Project and others) by Dr. Charles Grob and collaborators (e.g., Dr. Callaway and Dr. McKenna), already cited, done in Brazil, United States and Finland. In Brazil, the University of São Paulo is doing a study led by psychiatrist Dartiu Xavier da Silveira to establish the risks of ayahausca.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayahuasca


December 19th, 2009, 4:28 am
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Oliver Side wrote:
Narttram wrote:
@aVoid: I am as well of the opinion that "conversing with beings on DMT" and stuff like that is utter bullshit, its all in your head.


Well, everything is in our head, right? My thoughts, my feelings, my souvenirs, my hopes, my desires, my fears, the way I feel, the way I see things, the way I perceive both myself and others, etc... You know, colours DO NOT exist objectively speaking. They result from some of our eyes' functions meeting with the external world's stimuli. Colours are hallucinations we produce on a daily basis. However, does that mean that colours DO NOT exist at all for us, as human beings? Of course not! Of course they do exist for us. The same goes for sounds. 'Music' doesn't exist as such in the physical waves hitting my ears: only a construction of my auditory perception can literally create the music that I enjoy or not listening to. With that said, music does anyway exist for us, doesn't it? Of course it does, even though it doesn't exist in reality. The same goes for what you taste, what you smell, what you feel as painful or pleasurable, what you touch. Then, what is reality? That is the ultimate question no one seems to have the ultimate answer for. Remember the interview I did with KorovaKill's mastermind? He said "aren't we all Echoworld men, living in our pictures and imaginations of the world without knowing at all what's really going on out there?" Actually I think we are. Everything we perceive is not the objective, external, physical reality. It's a sense-data construction. A subjective mariage between your sense organs and what the outer world is. You can look up in any serious book on perception and the psychology of perception, it's all there so I'm not inventing this - Western science taught me so. Psychedelics just make it easier to realize this counter-intuitive fact of experience (among others).

So because the DMT beings are only in the DMT user's 'headspace', I don't think this means that they necessarily are 'bullshit', the same way neither colours nor music is bullshit though they both only exist in our headspaces. When someone says he's talked with aliens during a DMT experience, instead of saying 'bullshit', I just listen and think to myself: man, that must have been kind of spooky! If the DMT beings do not exist anywhere in the so-called 'objective reality' (now, what is that anyway?), then maybe they're in some part of our psyche which therefore deserves some more attention from the scientific community? In history of religions, for instance, the very simple fact that someone taking DMT actually feels like he gets in touch with higher intelligences from outer space, is very interesting. Could DMT be at the origin of what ancient tribe men started calling 'GODS' or 'SPIRITS' while in trance or during some ayahuasca ceremony? Could DMT be at the origin of music as we know it, i.e. purposefully transcendental use of sound? Who knows? Many researchers are working on that avenue. Especially since our own brain does produce DMT: "Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) is a naturally-occurring tryptamine and psychedelic drug, found not only in many plants, but also in trace amounts in the human body where its natural function is undetermined." (WIKIPEDIA) Isn't that fascinating enough?! I'm not saying that the DMT beings DO exist, that would be presomptuous - just like I think it is to say they don't. We just don't know yet what the fuck is the DMT world. We just discovered it. All we can do is wait and study its properties more and more, until some day we get a clearer picture about what it 'does' exactly. And the only way to do that is to have human beings take DMT and say what they went through. Not a very objective method of inquiring, as aVoid pointed out - but I think that should be blamed on the very nature of these drugs, not on a lack of scientific rigor and value.

Narttram wrote:
@Oliver: I would be very interested to know more about your favorite dosage and setting to maximise safety and ensure a rewarding experience.


Well, depends what we're talking about really. With every compound comes a different dosage. As for the setting, I always do it at home either alone or with my friend. Also, part of every personal setting is MUSIC. When I'm alone, lower dosage is required as I know what paranoia can do to me. Many times before, I've had the absolute fear of "oh no I'll never come back from this one". These extremely scary badtrips taught me a lot about myself and about how much difficulty I can have to completely let myself go as far as possible. Our mind is just so full of jester tricks when it comes to self-teaching. I have found a funny quote by Meckenna the other day: "During a trip, if you are not afraid you might have taken too much, then it means you haven't taken enough", which made me laugh. Also what you said about taking some time in between each séance is primordial: of course if someone is doing acid every 2 or 3 days for a year, he has more chances of turning into a strange person. But Ram Dass (just 1 obvious example) admittedly did THOUSANDS of LSD doses, sometimes even drinking from the liquid acid bottle for God's sake (you know how small one dose is), and he will die as a happy, spiritual and very sane person. So there is no absolute law here either. Everyone has to find his/her own path. Some do too much and get hurt, some don't. I say be careful and go gradually.

@Jaunting Head

I didn't feel like you were questioning my sanity either. As I said I appreciate your curiosity. I think many persons on here would be surprised to meet me in real since I'm not your typical drughead, etc. Everyone has an image in their imagination of what a drughead should be and it rarely is accurate or based on facts. For me we're all human beings anyway, and I don't see myself as different from any other person, druggy or not.


Thanks for your reply, to clarify things I would never classify an experience of conversing with entities as "bullshit" per se, I just have heard many people who are convinced that these entities are indeed external stimuli and the drug allows him to see them, this kind of view, in my opinion can be proven as bullshit, this is no way is meant disrespectful to those who belief it, to each is own, I would describe christianity as (or at least truly believing in it) bullshit as well without looking down upon christians.

I have had my share (well 2, actually) of bad trips before and I mean those truly horrible ones and I totally agree about the scariness of them but what is kinda relieving is that both of them can be directly traced back to irresponsible behavior on my part (dosing when I know I shouldn't for example).

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December 21st, 2009, 10:15 pm
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Do you think writers would benefit from these drugs?

"Well I think the people who would benefit most of all are professors. I think it would be extremely good for almost anybody with fixed ideas, with a great certainty about what is what, to take this thing and to realize that the world is constructed and is by no means the only world. There are these extraordinary, other types of universe which we may inhabit and which we should feel grateful for inhabiting I think."

Aldous Huxley

From LSD - The Beyond Within


December 24th, 2009, 5:36 pm
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Psychedelic Research and Therapy: A History in 5 parts


December 28th, 2009, 6:59 am
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Our society tends to celebrate technology. Do you see psychedelics as a technology?

Yes, absolutely. I operate under the notion that technologies are simply extensions of the human mind and body. Psychedelics, since they alter, impact upon, and enhance ordinary consciousness, certainly seem to fit that definition.

Do you believe that other dimensions exist, containing non-human intelligence?

Certainly there is no question that other dimensions exist. Mathematicians have been discussing higher dimensional space since the middle of the 19th century. As for inhabitants, that is a matter to be explored. The evidence from shamanism, dreams, and human mythology seem to suggest that the dimensions at the edge of our vision and our expectations are home to many virtual or apparent entities and beings. But we need to have strong filters and powerful logical razors when we venture into this area, where so much territory has been claimed by cults and by those whose agendas may be very different from that of the scientific investigator.

Terence MecKenna

Source: http://deoxy.org/t_sdt.htm


December 28th, 2009, 8:29 am
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Oliver Side wrote:
Our society tends to celebrate technology. Do you see psychedelics as a technology?

Yes, absolutely. I operate under the notion that technologies are simply extensions of the human mind and body. Psychedelics, since they alter, impact upon, and enhance ordinary consciousness, certainly seem to fit that definition.

Do you believe that other dimensions exist, containing non-human intelligence?

Certainly there is no question that other dimensions exist. Mathematicians have been discussing higher dimensional space since the middle of the 19th century. As for inhabitants, that is a matter to be explored. The evidence from shamanism, dreams, and human mythology seem to suggest that the dimensions at the edge of our vision and our expectations are home to many virtual or apparent entities and beings. But we need to have strong filters and powerful logical razors when we venture into this area, where so much territory has been claimed by cults and by those whose agendas may be very different from that of the scientific investigator.

Terence MecKenna

Source: http://deoxy.org/t_sdt.htm


I guess I have to read up some more about McKenna I always thought of him as a whacky kind of out there person (not in a negative way) whose theories (for example about psychedelics in human evolution) would seem illogical to me but these quotes sound rather "sane" :)

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January 3rd, 2010, 1:36 pm
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Another earlier interview with John C. Lilly:

Because our consensus reality programs us in certain destructive directions, we must experience other realities in order to know we have choices. That's what I call Alternity. On ketamine, I can look across the border into other realities. I can open my eyes in this reality and dimly see the alternate reality, then close my eyes, and the alternate reality picks up. On ketamine you can tune your internal eyes. They are not what is called the "third eye", which is centrally located, but are stereo, like the merging of our two eyes' images.

What is so special about ketamine?

It's a lot more fun than LSD or any of the other agents, because it induces a short trip and you can train yourself to the state. Pretty soon you can take ten times as much and still walk around and talk to people coherently, in spite of the fact that reality is vibrating. I can run my computer, ski, or do just about anything on ketamine. I've been on it as much as a hundred days straight. You don't really sleep, you don't really dream, because you don't need to. And on ketamine, I can experience the quantum reality: I can see [eminent University of Texas phycisist] John Wheeler's hyperspace from within.

Can you explain what you mean by experiencing hyperspace from within?

Wheeler's hyperspace also is known as a "nonlocal reality". Each of a pair of photons coming from an atom knows immediately what the other is doing, no matter how far away from each other they are. You can assume the existence of tachyons - faster than light particles, carrying messages - but I prefer John Bell's theorem's solution to the Einstein-Podolski-Rosen experiment. According to John Bell's theorem, hyperspace would be a region of hidden variables in which all realities are represented at a single point and in which there is no need for messages to travel. The "hyperspace" with which I've been working is one in which I can jump from one universe to another - from this reality to an alternate reality - while maintaining human structure, size, concepts, and memories. My center of consciousness is here, and I can know immediately what's going on anywhere in the universe. It's a domain I now call Alternity, where all choices are possible.

What first inspired you to use psychotropic drugs?

There were a lot of "LSD pushers" around our LSD research at NIMH when I was there in the fifties, but I didn't take LSD then. After about ten years in the tank I decided there was something new to be learned. So I came out here to California, where a lady I knew who had access to pure Sandoz LSD gave me the LSD for my first two trips. One my first trip I went through all the usual stuff: seeing my face change in the mirror, tripping out to music. During the first two movements of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, I was kneeling in heaven, worshipping God and His angels, just as I had in church when I was seven years old. On that trip I did every thing I'd read in the psychedelic literature so as to save my time and get out of the literature the next time. During my third trip, in the isolation tank in St. Thomas in 1964, I left my body and went into infinite distances - dimensions that are inhuman.

If you get into these spaces at all, you must forget about them when you come back. You must forget you're omnipotent and omniscient and take the game seriously so you'll engage in sex, have children, and participate in the whole human scenario. When you come back from a deep LSD trip or a ketamine trip - or coma or psychosis - there's always this extraterrestrial feeling. You have to read the directions in the glove compartment so you can run the human vehicle once more. After I first took acid in the tank and traveled to distant dimensions, I cried when I came back and found myself trapped in a body. I didn't even know whose body it was at first. It was the sadness of reentry. I felt squashed.

Source: http://www.scribd.com/doc/10336189/John-C-Lilly-Omni-Interview


January 20th, 2010, 5:23 am
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"I grew confident in my understanding of how to work with this substance, and verified that LSD was not a psychotomimetic as the medical profession claimed. I also understood why they made the claim. I see two major factors. If one has no understanding of the vast dimensions of the mind beyond ordinary experience (such as extra-sensory perception) or of the spiritual basis of reality, one might feel that experiencing such actualities is insanity.

The second factor involves the manner in which the experience is accepted. We found the action of the drug often worked to dissolve powerfully held false beliefs or painfully repressed or frightening feelings. This action often met with powerful resistance on the part of the subject. Surrendering to such experiences led to profound new understanding. Determined resistance, however, led to much pain and suffering, and sometimes escape into psychotic-type episodes. To avoid such discomfort, it is extremely important to approach psychedelic substances with good motivation, openness, and with a sincere desire to learn.

In the LSD state, it is possible to reach levels where the mind is sharp and clear. Fresh ideas and perspectives flow unhindered, presenting many new possibilities, often of great value. I felt that such heightened perceptions could be valuable in improving business operations. So I began to search for ways to utilize LSD at Ampex Corporation. At this time, I was Assistant to the President in Charge of Long Range Planning, and was a member of the Ampex Management Committee that reviewed and often arrived at management decisions for the Corporation. I made my proposal to the group, and immediately encountered enormous resistance. There was great fear of trying unknown substances on as delicate an organ as the brain. My own experience and that of Hubbard were completely discounted. I was too naive to understand why. So I went ahead on my own, selecting a group of engineers who were good friends and interested in the experiment. With the help of Hubbard and a physician friend, eight subjects underwent the experience at a cabin in the Sierra Nevada Mountains. There was a wide range of experiences, but all were impressed with the enormous openings of the mind, the ability to experience new levels of thought and comprehension, the gain in self-knowledge, and in some cases, the ability to solve technical problems. But much to my amazement, the results were totally ignored by management. I was to learn later that a member of our Board of Directors was also on the Board of the Palo Alto Research Center. He was strongly advised by the latter group to completely discourage me from this work, as I had no medical or therapeutic training.

My experience continued to grow, and I was awed at the ability to learn of mental processes well beyond my previous understanding. I also began to understood the enormous fear most persons had of psychedelic substances. Almost everyone has an innate fear of encountering the unconscious, as the unconscious mind contains much material that we wish to hide from ourselves. The fear and discomfort is often greater for professionals, who place great store on their special training. They cannot be sure how their values and functioning will appear in the light of cosmic truth. Dr. Abram Hoffer in Canada, who worked with LSD in the 1950s, found that ministers, psychologists, and psychiatrists often had the most uncomfortable experiences."

Taken from Thanatos to Eros, 35 Years of Psychedelic Exploration, written by Myron J. Stolaroff.


February 2nd, 2010, 3:31 am
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