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Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:45 pm
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Is there alot of that in Sweden, aVoid? What you call male chauvinism. Of course as most Americans I've watched the Millenium films and heard about Larsen's story, so that's why I'm asking you. I can't say there's a lot of male chauvinism around me, especially not at University, where there are more females than males. I think America was the centerpoint of the original feminist revolution so I guess it's quite 'normal' to note such an absence of male chauvinism (in its grotesque forms, of course).


January 25th, 2010, 8:47 pm
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It varies a lot. I have actually not seen that trilogy, and wil not read the books either (mostly because, you know, everyone has and should over here)... Well, isn't the whole of the West built on patriarchal structures leading to male chauvinism? I guess it all depends on the company you keep. Most men in Sweden consider themselves "enlightened" - of course women are as good as men at doing things that are considered masculine (technical stuff you know), but when it all boils down to what they actually feel, deep inside... they prefer some sort of gender-based segregation; not that women should have less equal salaries or rights, but that girls just aren't as good at certain things as guys. Especially among rock musicians who can't see further than their own noses & thing that women actually are less predisposed at being creative or good musicians. And slim pretty girls with big breasts are just a little better humans than other.
Complete fucking idiocy if you ask me. But as I'm raised in such a society, where men are just a bit more privileged and norm-establishing, I probably have those sides as well, even though I try to keep conscious about them, working on them.

But still, in the US at least (from what I've seen on TV, hah...) you have the whole housewife, father-makes-money-mother-raises-children patriarchal thing, which is not at all common in Sweden.

(sidenote on Stieg Larsson's books: after the movies, there's actually been somewhat of a rift among Swedish feminists - those who think that goth Elisabeth Salander should be a role-model, and those who despise her.)

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January 26th, 2010, 11:31 am
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Yeah of course America is not blessed by God, and as you pointed out, the patriarchal structures our traditions were built within left their mark, so male chauvinism does exist. If only in the porno industry, where it's flowering to the extent of a billions of dollars market. I was just talking about university and that's kind of limiting my scope.

I haven't read his books cause I don't really like reading but I've seen the first 2 movies, and I think they were quite good and entertaining. Lisbeth Salander could be a role-model for beaten wives and submissive women, yes, but I don't think the film is trying to shove a model down our throat. I can only see an intelligent outcast girl fighting against the system she has to deal with. Kind of a universal life situation for many men and women alive. Lisbeth is great at doing it though. :)


January 26th, 2010, 7:08 pm
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Ah yeah, Lisbeth. Don't know what to think other than that they've made her look like my first girlfriend in 2001.

We have a strange situation in the universities - esp. Lund University has many old traditions (est. in 1666 to make this region less Danish, more Swedish), which are all very male-dominated. There is a carneval every fourth year, and the director of that has never been female, after like 150 years. Most students are female (esp. in language & humanist subjects), as well as most graduates, however the post-docs up to professors are mostly male; as I said, many old traditions hindering women (LU had its first female student 130 years ago). Many are trying to working this problem out, with "gender certificate programs" and the like, and a lot of grey old men are working actively against it, with the old "feminazi" arguments. We have also the first institute for gender studies in Sweden, so there are a lot of dichotomies going on. But since I'm only a student yet, I have only seen the female majority (science and law are, I suppose, more male dominated).

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January 27th, 2010, 12:21 pm
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Hmmm...when architecture strted in zagreb in the 20's only one student was female, today 70% are female and 50% of the profesors and asistants are female!Balkan!

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January 27th, 2010, 12:32 pm
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The female majorit among students is of course also a problem, but 50/50 on the higher levels, that's great. In Sweden, as is the case in many countries I guess, the gender roles really come into play when you have children. Which is of course also the same time when you start working on your doctoral thesis... so many women start but never finish because they never return after they have children. But they're working on that too.

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January 27th, 2010, 12:56 pm
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Homemakers and housewives are increasingly uncommon in the United States--they're still out there, especially in more conservative, working-class parts of the country.

Most women I know work, even after having kids. There is a lot of discrimination against women in the workplace (unequal pay and opportunities), but women are still a major part of the workforce. I think they may even have surpassed men in numbers (not sure off hand), and there's more women with advanced degrees now than men.

Still lots of patriarchal and sexists attitudes towards women of course, and lots of efforts to strip them of hard-earned reproductive rights. But it's gotten better.

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February 4th, 2010, 3:29 pm
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+1 due to the new interview with Einz. Very interesting. :)


February 18th, 2010, 11:18 am
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Echon wrote:
+1 due to the new interview with Einz. Very interesting. :)


I Agree!

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February 18th, 2010, 12:15 pm
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The interview's been updated hehe... :) My fault, some last minute additions at the beginning!


February 18th, 2010, 7:05 pm
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I read the first Stieg Larsson novel. I enjoyed certain aspects, but when it came to the depictions of misogyny ( which he seemed very, um eager to depict..) as well as his depictions of right-wingers ( who are one and the same, we're led to believe), I thought it read like an orthodox lefty/marxist/feminists' kind of hysterical, paranoid fantasy of patriarchy and Rightism. It's not to say that those positions are not often problematic to secular humanist types, but ultimately I think it does a disservice, if you share those concerns, as it posits a kind of essentially evil "other" that we, the "good guys" must use any means to destroy.
I wasn't surprised to learn that he ran a far-left magazine.
As far as I'm concerned, women should have just as much right as we do to waste our lives sitting in cubicles and jumping from one unsatisfying relationship to another.


June 1st, 2010, 5:19 pm
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Interesting place to put a comment on Stieg Larsson. Yes, as most of the Swedish journalist crew, he was a fierce semi-Socialist. Add to that a heavy load of feminism. His magazine was - is - the leading anti-Fascist/racist publication, digging deep into the neo-Nazi soil in Scandinavia - he was widely known long before publishing books as somewhat of a "star" journalist combatting the many Nazis in the 90's; death threats etc.
So of course, the male journalist in his forties in the book is Stieg Larsson himself; getting a sociopathic, violent, versatile, twice as young as him goth-biker-hacker-chic to bed is the ultimate conquest for a grey boring academic like himself.

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June 1st, 2010, 8:07 pm
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Yeah, but there are other relationships in this book, like that b/w him and his long time partner in the publishing house who is married to another man. And in the second book that hacker girl falls again for Kale even she'd been quite sure she'd overcome him .. and let's not underestimate the value -- she has a lesbian girlfriend .. lot's of stuff. I'm not experienced in such matters, I go by the book.


June 2nd, 2010, 3:22 pm
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Yes, and the relationship between Stieg and the young goth is certainly not purely sexual. As far as I know they don't sleep together more than once, or maybe I'm wrong? They're more partners in crime than lovers. As Chavdar points out, the jounalist in the book actually has a female lover.


June 13th, 2010, 7:08 pm
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Uland Krzyz wrote:
I wasn't surprised to learn that he ran a far-left magazine.


Were you surprised to learn that he was brutally murdered for his ideas? You can be certain that what he was saying wasn't pleasing to hear for many people. Then if his depiction wasn't accurate, I wonder why they spent so much time trying to kill him and his work. As far as I know, when a writer isn't accurate, you either ignore his work or intellectually criticize it. There's no need to actually murder him hehe.


June 13th, 2010, 7:11 pm
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